Faith Over Financing: How Sirai Farah Built a Debt-Free Multifamily Fund

Steven Weinstock: 0:01 Hi everyone and welcome back to the Wealth Clock podcast with Steven Weinstock. I've been investing in real estate for almost 25 years, single family homes, multifamily properties, and I recently launched my own real estate investment fund. This podcast is brought to you by my company, we Capital and the We Capital Mortgage Fund. This fund is buying first lien positions. They're bridge loans, three months to 36 month term interest only. And I've been earning 12%. Which is an interesting topic that we're gonna have with our guest. We're not here to talk about me looking to have a great conversation with Sirai Farah, right? I said, I think I said that correctly. Sirai Farah: 0:46 Yep. You said it perfectly. Steven Weinstock: 0:49 Co-founder of Dean Vest, a firm that acquires a large multifamily completely in cash. No debt, no interest. And she says no compromise. Her journey started without a roadmap dropping out of college, cold calling homeowners, raising millions in private capital, and she's building a model grounded in faith, integrity, and conviction. Sirai. Thank you for coming on. How are you? Sirai Farah: 1:19 I am great. What a beautiful intro. I like that. I need a, I need to prerecord that and listen to it daily. Steven Weinstock: 1:26 What was the first thing you did after you left college? What? Did you get a job? Did you work for yourself? What was the first thing you did after you left or dropped outta college? Sirai Farah: 1:37 Yes. So after I dropped out of college, by the way, I kept it away from my mom for about six months. It's so funny how as an adult you're so scared of your parents, but I remember I used to complain a lot about school I was gonna be a physician.'cause that's just a dream that I was. Told to do. And I used to complain all the time, so I stopped complaining. And my mom calls me once and she was like, I quit six months ago. She's you must have gotten the hang of it. You haven't been complaining lately. And I was like, I think it's time to tell her. But after I quit and the family made it seem like I was some type of addict and I needed intervention, I just got into this, at the time I was working part-time for. It's a grocery chain. It was recruiting, so I was already doing that part-time. And once I let them know that I quit school, I transitioned into doing that full-time, which ironically, being in that space helped me later on when I built my business. But yeah, that's what I did. I did recruiting, I did hr. Hated every second of it. Steven Weinstock: 2:40 Got it. Most people who I speak to when they leave their current position, whether it's a W2 or leave school typically they are already thinking about real estate, dreaming about real estate and get into real estate. So real estate wasn't on your radar it seems at this point. Am I correct? Sirai Farah: 2:58 No, not at all. I didn't even, I didn't even know what equity meant. I had no knowledge about real estate. It was not on my radar. And the way I found it. So actually a ex of mine. After I quit college he was obsessed about telling me about wholesaling real estate. He gave me this book. It was called, if You Can't Wholesale After This, I don't know what to tell you. And for months he kept telling me to read this book. And I'm an action person, so I'm looking at him like, is this. Is so great. Why aren't you doing it? It can't be that great. You're not doing it. And he kept just pushing me and kept saying, you'd be good at this. And then one day, I think the universe forced me to read this book because it was raining, the power was out. And I just looked at the book sitting there on the counter, and I was like, let me, I'm bored. Let me read this. And then boredom turned into a drive. I just couldn't turn off. I was literally instantly hooked. And at the time I was living in Cleveland, Ohio, so I searched up the author, found that he was in Akron, which is about 30 minutes away. Found that he had a mentorship, and then that Monday I got a on a call with their sales team, and I was so excited. They tell me, oh, it's eight k. I was making 45 KA year at the time. I don't have eight k. I just left school years, a couple, few years ago making, basically just living paycheck to paycheck. And I asked them, can you do payment plans? And they said yes. And it was 1200, which was more than my rent at the time. So it was pretty scary. But I just jumped in and my first deal was in a month. It was a pre foreclosure deal. I made nine K, which is basically the mentorship fee. And that's all I needed. It was history from there. Steven Weinstock: 4:36 Was that first deal a flip, a wholesale. Sirai Farah: 4:38 No, it was wholesaling. Yep. It was a pre-foreclosure deal. What wholesale did did a quick nine k and it really, aside from the money piece, it really opened my eyes to, oh, this is real. This is, I can do this Steven Weinstock: 4:52 Now. What kind of deals or what exactly, what type of assets are you buying or involved in these days? Sirai Farah: 5:02 Now or before? Steven Weinstock: 5:03 Now? Sirai Farah: 5:04 Now. So now we are targeting, we're doing syndications essentially, but in a cash fund model. So it's basically what a syndication, a hundred plus unit multifamily we're doing 75 25 splits inside of the fund. We do a 8% preferred return to, for our investors. And we'd like to target B class properties in landlord friendly cities. So we like Charlotte, we like Columbus, Ohio we like Dallas, the Atlanta, MSA, and so on. Steven Weinstock: 5:30 Got it. So you are effectively, you're buying these properties in cash. Are you saving on fees in regards to the bank and appraisal and all that Sirai Farah: 5:42 oh yeah. You definitely save on all of that. So let me back up.'cause the fund is new. And I actually, so just to give the audience a more perspective on why are we even doing all cash. It's really mainly number one for a faith reason. So when I transitioned out of wholesaling and I wanted to build generational wealth, the biggest issue at the time, there was a, he wasn't a paid mentor, but he had, a few hundred units and he told me, Hey, if you're gonna do this, you might as well go after the big boys. Right away the work is the same, just go for it. So in doing that, 'cause initially I just wanted to buy smaller units that were more manageable in doing so. He wasn't Muslim. And me being Muslim, I was like, okay, how do I do this without leverage though? Which basically is impossible. I had no one wanted to give me capital. I had no experience, right? The brokers didn't wanna send me deals. So all cash wasn't even fathomable, right? Like it was just a such a, I had such a limited mindset belief. So anyway, it took me 20 months. I just told myself, making excuses. There's no other way. And I told myself, if I don't put my name on the loan. And I just handle it with my the get on the operating agreement. I don't put my name on the loan. It makes me feel better spiritually. So that's what I did and that's when I got my first property with 75 unit. This is using leverage, by the way. And after 20 months of chasing that deal you would think I would be happy when I closed, but I felt empty. And then I told myself if I buy more, so then I got up to 320 units. About nine months later it was about 90 million a still using leverage. And this past was as in March, that's when I really had the clarity of, I don't wanna do this. This doesn't feel good. I don't wanna keep building wealth is this way. And that is when I actually got bought out of the 320 units, donated the money, and then now we're starting fresh with the fund and we're raising capital. So we actually haven't bought a deal with this model yet. Steven Weinstock: 7:39 Got it. This model you are raising the full purchase price. Correct. Typically correct. If you look at a deal that is a$10 million purchase price, and we'll use that number because it's an easy number to play with. A typical, gP or investment model would be get leverage, with a bank or a fund whether it's 60% loan to value, whether it's as, as aggressive as 80% loan to value. Yeah. And then put down the 20% or the 40% plus, an extra two or three 4% for fees. And if you have a CapEx budget all that money, typically is the down payment, whether it comes from. You, the gp LP investors, partners, et cetera. So here you're really removing such a big chunk of the capital stack. So to purchase this, the raise has to be obviously larger. Sirai Farah: 8:30 Yes. Steven Weinstock: 8:31 But I definitely see the value and the marketing aspect of it, because the biggest risk to LP investors in general is the bank. People get a bank loan and if things go haywire or sour in any way, no matter what the bank has to be paid, they get paid day one, whether you're collecting rent, whether the roof is working, whether you got delayed in the building, the property you gotta pay every single month. And if anything goes wrong or even delayed, it basically comes from investor equity. So they're the first ones to take a hit, the LPs, and if it really goes haywire and the bank takes the property. They get diluted, ASAP here really removing a real risk factor to these investors, whether they're LPs or, JVs or partners. That definitely has to be a selling point. As far as the return I guess that's debatable as far as, how much leverage you're using. But. You mentioned some of these, or what you're looking at is an 8% preferred return. Did I hear that correctly? Sirai Farah: 9:37 Yep. We do 8% preferred return and then 75 25. Steven Weinstock: 9:40 Yeah. So that's definitely a nice great for the investors. The no leverage, but it is really it's really a security. Effectively the LPs have a first position lien on the property, effectively, yes. Whether it's, through the LC or a group of LLCs, whatever it is, they really have that first position lien on the property. So if they have a choice of investing a hundred thousand here or a hundred thousand in a typical syndication that's being, advertised or marketed even by a great sponsor, they're still a second fiddle to the bank. And here. They are effectively the bank. It's really mind blowing and it's really nice. How has the public received it? Maybe at first glance, even at first glance when I saw it.'cause I, I've read what you've written in the past. I was, I don't wanna say skeptical, but I was Okay. People do it especially on the smaller on the smaller properties. But the more I thought about it and the security for the LPs is really really tremendous. How's the public or the people you're talking to, how are they responding? Sirai Farah: 10:42 They, we are getting two different types of responses, but they are loving it. It's so interesting how I did this really out of a the why for this was really a personal why. Of wanting to do things based in integrity in the right way. But when we peeled back the layers, we started to see that, wow, this is actually a blue ocean strategy. And that wasn't even the goal, right? Because yes, the LPs do essentially have first position that first position lean on the property and the Muslims, it's two different. Reactions. The Muslims just absolutely love it, especially here in the US because we accept international investors. They don't have anything like this. We have funds on a smaller scale when it comes to single family, but you just can't compare the returns of single family and multifamily. It's just not the same. So they are, we get Steven people on it's really, it's an interesting dynamic for me sometimes 'cause I'll get on a call with an investor, they'll cry and I've had it multiple times and it puts so much more responsibility on us. Okay, wow, this is. This is a different level of trust that people want to give you. You have to make sure that you take this very seriously. But yeah, that's the reaction we get from the Muslims. They don't even ask about the returns. It's like they don't have any other options. Their options are to do something that doesn't. That compromises their values or to sit on the sidelines. They don't really have many options, so they'll take 3%, 4%. So that's the reaction from the Muslims and then the non-Muslims. I was surprised to see how much non-Muslims are tired of over leveraged deals and are tired of and just want a safer investments. I was, that surprised me because I tell them, as soon as I find out someone's not a Muslim, I tell them like, Hey, on paper you can probably get better, higher returns using a operator that does do leverage. I tell them that straight up just to give them the options, and I'm seeing that they prefer a safer investment. Steven Weinstock: 12:50 Interesting. So Sirai Farah: 12:50 It's been great. The raise officially we're, our first offering is 20 million. The raise officially has been open now for about seven weeks, and we're about averaging about 1.1 million to 1.25 a week raised. Steven Weinstock: 13:05 Oh, wow. Very nice. Sirai Farah: 13:07 Very nice. Steven Weinstock: 13:07 Where are you going to be buying these assets? Sirai Farah: 13:11 So right now we're looking heavily in Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Charlotte, and we're in Atlanta. So we're always looking at the Atlanta area. Steven Weinstock: 13:20 What kind of assets are you buying? I you mentioned multifamily, but Sirai Farah: 13:26 Yes. Steven Weinstock: 13:26 Price tag class B, class A, class C class. Sirai Farah: 13:30 We're looking for Class B. Definitely with value add. We want a safer pool of tenants, right? Nicer areas. Definitely make sure, definitely has to be value add in 1985 and newer is what we like to target. And then when we're underwriting instead of underwriting with the lens of a debt service, we underwrite through the lens of can our investors day one get 8% return or very close to it? So that's the underwriting lens we use when we're looking at these deals. Steven Weinstock: 13:59 Got it. And are you looking to buy with this $20 million raise? Are you looking to buy one property for about 20 million? You looking to buy a few at 6 million each? Are you looking to buy$3 million properties? What's your buy bucks? Sirai Farah: 14:14 So it's really, it's not a more of how many buildings we can do. So here's the really good thing is as soon as we talk to brokers and they find out we're an all cash fund without negotiating, they immediately drop that price on us for us. So that's great 'cause we have search fee of clothes. So it's really going to depend on realistically, because like you mentioned earlier, aside from raising the actual purchase price, we have to raise so much more. Because we it's all cash. So it's really just gonna depend on what deals fit, how much capital that we have. So if we have a timeline, so our goal is to be at that full 20 million before December. So at that point, then we'll see, okay, based on the deals that we're getting, what can we afford to purchase? That's also. A good deal for our investors. So we're just balancing them both right now. So if it's too great, I don't think it's, I don't foresee it to be three.'cause then that means we'll be looking at some other deals, but two at the most. Steven Weinstock: 15:10 Got it. Interesting. While paying cash for the properties operating it and really saving on a bunch of fees. But like you mentioned when you're calling and you're. Telling the other side of a negotiation that you're all cash and, you could show a proof of funds. You definitely have that's, obviously leverage but you could definitely negotiate a better price. So just by being a cash buyer. Definitely on smaller properties and even in the one through four unit space, which I'm involved in with a fund that I work on those, you could really get big discounts when offering cash. Sometimes I offer cash and they'll reject me right away, and I say, my offer stands come back to me in a month, three months, six months, et cetera. My offer stands. A lot of times they do come back to me. They were in contract. They were in contract and it fell through. They were the broker overpromised and never delivered, whatever it is. And they'll call me back, a couple months later and either agreed to my low ball, cash price, or, try to meet me in the middle. That's a very interesting model. Okay, so you're looking to buy in Ohio and you're based out of Atlanta. Yes. And the properties that you're gonna be buying, these are gonna be managed by a third party. Are you creating an in-house management or are you strictly becoming the gps, the asset managers the capital raising, and, what's the role after acquisition? Sirai Farah: 16:36 We're definitely utilizing third party management. I think in business in general, I think focus is important and right now our strong suit is on the raising capital side and the asset management side, so we're gonna stick to that. I think having in. Management just sounds like I'm getting, I feel PTSD just thinking about it. So that is definitely out of the question. But yeah, we're gonna do third party management and the as much work we can outsource from people who are, high level professionals we're gonna do that always. I'm excited. I love multifamily. I love real estate. And now that I finally feel like I can fly, if you will, I'm I'm excited to, to make it happen and, and to show people that you don't, yes, this is harder, but you don't need debt to grow. That's really the message that I wanna share you, you don't need, because that is what is being taught here in the West is we need to be in debt. Let's take faith aside of it. It's like debt. Everything has a debt and I want us to move away from that. I think as operators we've learned to make it smarter. Oh, it's leverage. You're not coming in with any of your capital, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you're still at the end of the day, like you said earlier if something happens, that bank has taking the property.'cause they're the ones who are truly winning. Steven Weinstock: 18:03 What does the exit look like for a property that's purchased? With this new fund? We talking five years. Seven years, hold it indefinitely. We'll decide. I know when it comes to deals with leverage usually the first place is to try to refinance year two, year three, year four. And try to get back some of that capital, give it back to the investors. Here you're not utilizing, I guess the traditional debt and the debt markets. But say you buy your property for 10 million today and in three years you, operated like a rockstar and it's worth 14 million. Do you sell it? You're not refinancing or you're not pulling out anything? Sirai Farah: 18:43 Yes. Steven Weinstock: 18:44 What's your typical or what's on the horizon or what's notated in the fund? What's what's, what are the investors looking into? Or looking forward to? Yes. Sirai Farah: 18:52 So exit strategy is to definitely sell in three to five years. We are going to have some other properties that we hold long term, which are probably gonna be more of our class A unit properties. They, we can hold those for about 10 years, maybe more. But for these B class properties, three to five years exit, give the investors all their capital back, plus how much they've been cash flowing, plus their, their profit share. And we, I, the reason, mainly reason why we wanna do this really is also right the full showing proof of full cycle. So that's the plan for that. We definitely wanna sell and then hold some properties as well. And we do, we are seeing a really big need for, and this is something we might do in the future. We'll see. For people asking us for halal funding. That's something we see in the horizon, so we'll see. Steven Weinstock: 19:45 Got it. What's Halal funding? Sirai Farah: 19:47 Basically people who are like, Hey we wanna do what you're doing. We can't raise capital. Can you lend me money to go buy it? Basically like a hard money lender. Got it. Without the interest component. Steven Weinstock: 19:59 Got it. Got it. Okay, I understand meaning you're more of a partner in their deal and it's not a straight interest play. Understood. Sirai Farah: 20:08 Yeah. So what we, yeah, that's what we will see. But I the issue ho, hopefully the issue that I'm foreseeing is we are gonna raise too much capital to deploy into the the deals that we're seeing. And, you never wanna just. Put money into a bad deal because you have a money problem. So we definitely are going to have to venture out. The goal is 150 million in the next 12 months raised. We'll definitely have to broaden kind of our horizons outside of multifamily, but stick, stay in the real estate space. Steven Weinstock: 20:37 Understood, understood. What else do you do besides real estate? You go surfing, are you mountain climbing? Are you taking the subways and, looking at the inner city just to see how the country is is doing what are you binging? Netflix, maybe. Sirai Farah: 20:53 What do I do? Let's see. That's okay, so I love to do Spartan races. Are you familiar? Steven Weinstock: 20:59 Sounds athletic. But no, I'm not. I'm not familiar. Sirai Farah: 21:02 So I, so I used to do power lifting, and then I realized, okay, like I love lifting heavy things, but my cardio was terrible. Anything above five reps, I was breathing so hard and I should be in shape, right? Because in power lifting. And anyway, then I transitioned into marathon running, and then I lost all my muscle. And, did my first marathon here in Atlanta last year. And then I was like, I need a combination. So Spartan Spartan is, it's really fun. It is basically. Have you ever seen the Ninja warriors on, on, on TV and stuff with the obstacles? Yeah. So it's basically obstacles with running. So the one that I did recently was it's 13 mile run with obstacles. So you do three mile obstacles, four miles obstacles. So I do that, which is really fun and challenging. Steven Weinstock: 21:52 So it's like those ninja warrior show contests I used to see on tv. Is that what it was? Ninja Warriors. Sirai Farah: 21:58 That's how the obstacles not as intense, but that's how the obstacles that's the best way to mimic them. Or if you've ever seen like tough mutters. Steven Weinstock: 22:05 Tough muts, I've seen, yeah. Sirai Farah: 22:06 Yes. So think of kind of that. So that is what I like to do for fun. I love to, I used to have a catering side hustle. So I love cooking. It's it was fun until it became work, so I had to let that go. That's right. And yeah just a whole bunch of random things I think you can relate. Being in the field that we're in, I think we definitely need other outlets so we don't go crazy. Steven Weinstock: 22:30 Talk to me about investors. Are you. Receiving inve, are you targeting or receiving, talking to networking with retail investors or mom and pop investors or institutional investors? What's are they referrals from friends and family? How's that been going? Sirai Farah: 22:48 Yeah, so our investors, so our fund is a 5 0 6 C, so it, they are all accredited investors and right now majority of the investors that we get are actually from Instagram. Yes, we get a lot of inve, like I, hundreds and hundreds of dms on Instagram. I was very surprised to buy. So we have a lot of retail investors. I definitely target institutional investors as well. Right now the challenge I'm having with the institutional investors is, some of their minimums are so high and I don't want them to have 50% equity in the business. So I think we would have to be looking at much bigger deals. So I'm looking for that mid institutional, where they can put in 10 to 20 instead of the 50 million I've been being told as a minimum. But definitely a combination of people who invest 50 k, a hundred k, people who invest in that midsection, and then people who invest like. A million plus is what we're seeing Steven Weinstock: 23:44 are most of the, and you mentioned Instagram, so is that your post, I guess you're posting on Instagram? Yes. I'm not familiar really with too much with Instagram. I am very active on LinkedIn and I've, I've seen you on LinkedIn but Instagram I'm not really on. I have an account some of my stuff gets posted there from the podcast, but I personally am not. Scrolling with my finger. What are you post? What type of stuff are you posting on Instagram? You're doing videos, you're doing audio, you're doing pictures carousels. Sirai Farah: 24:14 So what we're doing on Instagram is the business page is we are showing behind the scenes of 'cause we wanna, build show the journey, right? We are showing a lot of behind the scenes we're doing. We do a lot of investor education like in ungodly amounts online and offline, which has been serving us really well. It is more of a slower process. But it's definitely been working. But yeah, we do carousels, we do grills, we do behind the scenes, I do videos breaking down some deals that we're underwriting. Just kind of me going to properties and showing the tours, just showing the day to day of what it takes for us to build a fund and then educating and teaching people at the same time. So that is, really our biggest lead source LinkedIn I have been on, but I'm taking it seriously now, so I'll keep you posted on what I make happen there. But yeah, I swear by Instagram. Steven Weinstock: 25:11 So you mentioned earlier that one of the reasons there's, I guess there's multiple reasons why you're buying with without bank debt, without interest. We spoke about the risk a reason to not do it, based on risk. And now your LPs are first position effectively. But you also mentioned we spoke about it offline. You mentioned that in, I guess Islam, it's, it, this is forbidden. So just gimme like a rough I don't know, 20 seconds on what exactly you're referring to for, my audience who doesn't know much about it. Sirai Farah: 25:40 Yes. So in my religion in Islam, ribba, which means interest and the actual root definition of the word translates to usy is something that's forbidden because if you look at history, right? Someone who's poor doesn't have money, they go to someone who makes more money and they get charged so much interest that now the person can never pay you back. And it basically is, it's oppression in a sense, even though no one forced you to take the money you are, it's being looked at as being, taking advantage of someone who's, the someone who's more needy than you are. So that is what interest means. It's forbidding in our religion and living here in the US and not utilizing it is, it's virtually impossible. So that is what I've been trying to navigate, is staying true to who I am, but also wanting to do big things. And it's. It's a hard balance to keep. Steven Weinstock: 26:33 So even if you have somebody who I'm gonna dive a little deeper into this. Yes. So even if you have somebody who says, it's okay, I'll sign a document that says you could charge me the 10%. Yeah. That's still forbidden. Even if they agree, even if they're rich, even if they're business guys even though you know they have food on their table, is that allowed? If they sign away? Sirai Farah: 26:54 No. It must have we must have shared risk. And that's the whole point of why this is forbidden. So in that scenario, there's no shared risk. So it's in my religion, you're taught all right go make money, go do great things, but make sure when you're in business with someone, one person doesn't have more leverage than the other, and it's equal. So whatever that arrangement may be, it has to be shared risk. Yeah. Yeah. Steven Weinstock: 27:17 Wow. So even if it's you mentioned the word usy, so usy has a negative connotation. Sirai Farah: 27:23 Yes. Steven Weinstock: 27:24 So my question is, in today's environment where it's a 7% rate with a bank loan, let's say, or 8% for a bridge loan, or 5%, if you're getting a Freddie Mac loan. What if you got a loan for 1%, which some people would take that all day long, and it's definitely not a negative. 1%. Is that still considered is that still forbidden? Is that still considered usury or, Sirai Farah: 27:48 yeah, so it's one of those things that. As you, because I've done this wanting to be in the multifamily space. I've tried to find loopholes or, play around with wordings and semantics and yeah, you can look at it that way. And yeah, that could definitely be, 1% seems like a really good deal, but I. Something I had to just be very honest and clear about with myself is our religion is clear. So either just do it and indulge and be okay with it, or just don't do it at all. So yes, objectively that sounds like a great deal, but I think once you start to get into the semantics and really break it down, it's come on. Just go do it. It's okay. Just go get your interest rate and do your thing. Steven Weinstock: 28:33 But good Sirai Farah: 28:33 question. Good question. I've thought about it all. Steven. I convinced myself if you put, don't put your name on the loan as the whole gp, it makes things better as if it. It doesn't make anything better. It it's definitely a struggle be being here. I think we've u learned to use it for good, but if you take business away from it, I think for every day-to-day people, it's not really a a positive thing. It just keeps people in debt. Steven Weinstock: 29:02 No, definitely. Dave Ramsey would love this would love this deal or this process. I'm sure you heard of him. He is a radio host. He's very anti-death. He is not Muslim. But he is he's always talking about you wanna buy property, buying in cash, just buying in cash. Sirai Farah: 29:16 It's, yes, it's less glamorous. It's, it definitely is less glamorous. You move very slowly. I think if I would've tried to do this when I first started real estate, it would be so much more difficult. So much more difficult. So I see I see the natural hesitation. I've had it for so long. Steven Weinstock: 29:36 I said this before, when you're buying large properties in cash, obviously it's a $10 million deal. It's a big raise. You gotta raise 10, 12, 13 because you wanna do some work to it or whatever it is. I've purchased plenty of smaller properties using a cash model. And when I say smaller, I'm talking about one to fours. And these are typically in the, 300,000 to the 600,000 or the 800,000 in the markets I was buying in New Jersey. But the reason I did it wasn't for religious reason, but it was more to get the best price possible. And again, because sometimes with the people selling the one to fours. You're dealing with a bigger pool of sellers. The sellers of those properties are either homeowners themselves, they live in one unit, they rent out to other two, or they are investors or mom and pop investors. You have a lot of people who own a second house just because they never sold and they upgraded them. And you have a lot of accidental landlords. A lot of a lot of mom, a lot more mom and pops, less institutional. There's a lot more emotion, a lot more reasons for selling. They're moving a job, whatever, they're, something happened, they need the money. And offering cash was a way to really get 25% off on even the asking price. Sometimes it struck right away. I would offer cash 15 14 or 21 day closing hard deposit, non-refundable deposit, proof of funds, and. A lot of times I would get the deal, most of the time they would tell me to fly a kite, the offer was too low. I'm just wondering on the bigger properties, are you gonna get such a big discount or are you dealing with obviously more institutional or, more professional investors and owners who may not care if you're paying cash or. Getting a loan as long as they have a deposit that's, going hard or non-refundable, sometimes that's good enough, especially if it's a large enough deposit. You definitely get a discount, but do you think you'll get as could you get a 20% discount because of cash on a such a large deal? Sirai Farah: 31:48 I think that's a really good point, and. In that type of scenario, I would just bank on, like you mentioned earlier, all when that one buyer can't close and it's been months right now, mentally you can take less, so it's, I don't anticipate a big drop for the bigger properties. However, the strategy isn't to get discounted properties. That's not really what's driving the strategy. If we can, that's great, but we're making sure at. The purchase price that we're offering it makes sense for us. And because we do have people that are institutions that we're competing with, who are putting in higher offers, who have so much proof of of concept that they're probably not gonna have an issue closing. So we just wanna be that one small group that's Hey, we're here if it, in case things go left we're here. So that's really how we're approaching it. And we haven't even done hard negotiations when it's, it comes to the brokers, they're genuinely dropping it naturally, which is surprising to me. But due to the amount of loans maturing in multifamily it's not that surprising. I think a lot of operators just need to get out. So that's another benefit that we are another advantage we're benefiting from. Steven Weinstock: 33:06 Yeah, definitely. Any listing that's been on the market for a while they might have especially somebody who's, was in contract, they couldn't, the whatever reason they couldn't close a cash buyer. Definitely. Yeah. Is appealing and it should definitely lead to, instant equity in the property. Yes. Okay. SORAY. Yeah. I had a great time. Thank you very much. You taught me a lot. Tell everybody here how they could reach you. Give website email address if you want. Phone numbers Instagram handles, LinkedIn handles. Anything you got go for it and we'll put it in the show notes. Sirai Farah: 33:41 Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Steven. I too had a lot of fun. We gotta continue this conversation offline. Yeah, so you guys can find me everywhere. Ig, LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, just by my first and last name. So that's Sarai. Farrah, S-I-R-A-I. And then last name F-A-R-A-H. And our website and company is called DeenVest Capital. So you can search this up online, but if you find me in any of my social medias, it's. Pinged everywhere. So looking forward to connecting with you guys. Steven Weinstock: 34:12 Okay. I had a great time. Thank you everybody for tuning in to the Wealth Clock podcast. Please like it, subscribe to it, tell your friends about it. Post and comment. I look at it, I respond to it. Sirai, thank you very much. Sirai Farah: 34:29 Thank you.